LS Re: On thrones and chairs

Magnus Berg (
Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:25:45 +0100

Hi squad!

I would also like to congratulate you Diana, and all of us really to
Pirsig's appreciative words. A little sad that he won't join us, but
I guess he's right. We would take what he says for the truth, at least
more than other's opinions. So maybe it's for the best.

Now, back to business.

Bo wrote:
> A value, however shifty (as in the counterfeit money case) is not
> subjective, the subjective term - as well as the objective - is foreign to
> the MOQ. The value of an Inorganic artifact or of a biological organism (a
> pet for instance) seen from the higher levels' point of view is as real as

I don't know if I got that as you meant it. If you mean that patterns of
one level can only be valued from the one level above, I agree. So, this
chair we seem to be stuck with, can be valued differently depending on
our point of view. If our legs are in pain, our biological level value
the inorganic attributes of the chair to ease the strain on our tired legs.
On the other hand, the restaurant owner values the function the chair
gives to the restaurant-society, because it increases the value of the
restaurant-society. But it is really the restaurant-society that primarily
values the chair as an organ, IMO.

> Human beings - when focussed on the social -
> or lower - level are not Intellectual. When we start rationalizing why we
> like that and hate that we're back on the Intellectual level. This why it
> is so horribly important to get the distinction between the MOQ Intellect
> and the SOM "Mind" sorted out.

How would you formulate this distinction? We're still using this SOM mind
of ours as arguments in this discussion, maybe too much. But as you say,
if we could pin down the distinction, we could still use it if we think
it's easier and at the same time be sure about what we mean MoQ-wise.

> Reading LS mail is
> Intellect, but then I see a sarcastic remark and suddenly my (hurt) social
> self is in focus

I'm truly sorry Bodvar. We're discussing very personal thoughts here and
sometimes it's hard (for me anyway) not to let critisism get to me. I should
NOT have let that slipped past my send-button, please disregard it if you can.


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