Magnus Berg (MagnusB@DataVis.se)
Wed, 10 Sep 1997 04:10:27 +0100
>I am new to the forum and have some questions to throw out.
I'll make a go at them, just keep in mind that what we do here are
discussing the MoQ and therefore we have different views about
>1. The MoQ shows that invention is used to go upward from one static
>pattern to another. Society (in
> general) is currently at the Intellectual Static value pattern
>layer. Thus, my question is who is
> inventing these ascendant patterns today?
Nothing is inventing anything! The levels have always been around,
dormant. They were not been able to manifest themselves though
until the next lower level was advanced enough to support them.
I guess you got the word "invent" from Doug's table. Don't take
anything said (here) for granted, that goes for Doug's table too.
>2. One of the current trends in the world today is the Internet. The
>Internet provides a means for a
> 'collective consciousness.' What layer does this fit into within
Huh! I'm sure many on Lila squad would oppose me on this one!
I'd say that the internet are social patterns of value, but *could* in
the future support intellectual patterns.
>3. If a given level of the MoQ is not aware of the level above it, then
>how can it invent the
> level above it?
It doesn't, it gets used by the level above when it has developed the
>4. After reading SODV (Pirsig), I noticed that he states that "I can
>find no place where the
> words subjective and objective are used where they cannot be
>replaced by one of these four
> categories." (page 15, 3rd paragraph). Now, looking at the
>Architecture of Quality
> (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/4670/doug.html, Doug's
>representation) two questions
> come up: A. The fourth column does not label the layers that
>Doug added (beyond Pirsig's
> model) as objects or subjects. Thus, what are they? and B.
>Since Pirsig said that he only
> needed 4 categories and Doug clearly has an infinite amount of
>categories then who is correct?
A: You'll have to ask Doug about that. I haven't heard from him for
a while. Did he really leave for good? That would be a shame.
B: That's one issue we're discussing here, stay tuned!
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